strong supreme court foundation to stand on, to have that conversation with people. so when people are going to try to be like, oh, you don't deserve it. oh, you're not equal, oh, you're not this. you're not full americans. it's like, yeah, talk to the supreme court. that changes everything. and i also think what chad said was very important. these cases are about laws. the way they played out, they were about people. they were about those two men. they were about edie and her late wife. and that really does change the conversation, because you may think whatever you think about doma. but how can you not love edie windsor? how can you not have your heart, you know, filled with love and sorrow for her loss? so that changes in a legal, a fundamental and a human way, in my opinion, the conversation. >> i think it's interesting, too. i mean, for us sitting here, first of all, three gay people, discussing openly gay people discussing this on national television, is itself a moment. but edie windsor is also not somebody who came up as an activist. >> no.